Tonight's topic is Gunnery - How to Get the Job Done.

Lt. Colonel "Billy" Bishop, a Canadian pilot, perhaps the leading RAF ace of WWI, said, "The most important thing in fighting was shooting, next to the various tactics in coming into a fight and last of all flying ability itself".

Take a look at the leading scorers in WB. The top twenty average over 13% almost double the arena average. A motor hot pilot who can twist his bird in all contorted ways, yet can't deliver the goods will die in the end and do little to strategically benefit either his score or the overall war effort. And nothing like one pass quick kill to increase your chances in a one on four fight.

Gunnery allows you to get in and get out and get on to killing other things rapidly.

Tonight's outline is as follows:

I will be taking a Q & A break between each even numbered section. After Section two I'll take questions....just type "!" and we'll get to you

There is a myth that those who spend the most $ have the best shot at good gunnery. This is not true. If you are getting a frame rate above 13 consider this acceptable. For example, a pilot is getting 21% gunnery with a 486 machine and 15" monitor. I rarely get over 20 fps when I log off in DOS mode. Another pilot who averages 20% gets about the same on a 15" Sony. Not everything is $ and hardware.... in fact little is. If you are below 13 fps or have warps then you do have some hardware issues to resolve if you desire superb gunnery. A good joystick, with views, is mandatory. I recommend a stick with a double trigger that allows for MG only, and then MG and cannon.

Also a speed card for these faster Pentium machines people are driving.

Update from Worr - Click here

You need to use rudders for that extra gunnery ability. The Keyboard works well for fine tuning a shot, while pedals allow some advanced gunnery issues to happen, as well as some more violent ACMs.

Thus ends 1. Hardware

Convergence and Lethality

(I'll take questions after this section, btw)

If you simply sit in your aircraft on the ground and fire your guns, you will see how they cross at a certain point in front of you and then begin to make the letter x. That is your convergence point.

In the early stages of the Battle of Britain the Hawker Hurricane fighter planes were coming out with a factory set convergence of 400 yards. When this was finally remedied by setting it down to 200 yards, sometimes less, astounding results were realized. It cannot be over stated the effect of all your guns hitting at a single point on your target.

If your convergence is 200 then shots out to 400 should be fine, but outside this you will begin to bracket the target, or one bank of guns will be hitting but not the other.

In the Spitfire for example you can watch your two banks of guns from both wings of your ac hitting two separate places on the target. You may even be able to plug both wings from the enema bird and watch it fly like a pencil through the air.

But consider the FTD or the 109 that has all its guns in the nose. That one wing would have come off much sooner with a more violent and concentrated firepower placed at one point.

The 51 and F4U are especially vulnerable to convergence issues it seems. The guns scatter broadly about outside that range, but in that convergence zone they pack a punch.

Also......

Know that bullet drops affects some ac drastically, such as the Zero that has its cannon in the wings. Your MG may be lighting up your target while the lethal cannon shells are drifting harmless below him.

What is a good setting? I like 200 for the most part. I remember using lower for the days when the Zero was a bit more stout. 300 is good for boom and zoom and buffhunting. I always consider double my convergence range to be the limit of my range, excepting, of course, the ac that have all their guns in the nose.

OK...............

From Free: here
From Worr: Let's take a break here for questions.........use a "!"
From Lephty: !
From Slo: !
From Worr: Leph
From Damned Zork: !
From Lephty: Do 38's cannons drift down more than MG's ?
From Worr: No, apperently not
From Luxor: !
From Worr: at least not as much as the zero's
From Worr: Slo
From Slo: How lethal are most machine guns anyways? Are they going to get you a kill?
From Worr: depends
From Lephty: cc done tnx.
From Worr: .50s are powerful
From Slo: On the Spit?
From Worr: 7.7mm well......hehe hard to kill frogs even with them, spit's are potent, but nothing compared to those two cannon
From Slo: Thx.
From Worr: Damned Zork
From Worr: then Luxor
From Damned Zork: so gun drop is modeled ?
From Luxor: sorry missed the first part of the session... How do u set the convergence???
From Worr: yep
From Damned Zork: thx
From Worr: personally Luxor?
From Slo: !
From Worr: I like 200 for turn and burn....300 for boom and buff killing
From Worr: Slo
From Slo: Is the cannon drop in the Spit really great?
From Ram1: !
From Worr: not too bad really, but outside 400 yards you'll see it
From B757: !
From Worr: for the zero outside 200 yards and you'll see it
From Slo: There goes my excuse.
From Worr: Ram1
From Ram1: How do you judge the cannon drop in a zeke .. if conv set to 200 - where should you aim?
From B757: Which aircraft is the most lethal at 300 yds.or so.
From Worr: hehe...more to that question than meets the eye ram1, let me pick that up later ok?
From Ram1: cc, thought so
From Worr: most lethal? FW then ftd then Spit
From Worr: OK.....moving on then

A most common mistake made by pilots is that they over control their input device. They shoot their tracers out like a Frisbee in the sky, or like moving a hack saw blade back and forth against a sheet of metal so they zigzag the pipper across the target each time overcompensating for the previous mistake.

Its a vicious, circular trap. You overreact to each overreaction until you feel sick From all that swaying.

The secret is to fly the ac and not the stick. I say again, the secret is to fly the ac and not the stick. Know that when you push the stick a certain direction the ac will go that way, eventually not immediately.

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From Crazy: p39 is pretty lethal from any range B757
From Worr: It is only a split second, but since we grow impatient we think,"Well if one aspirin is good maybe four will do the trick." If you overfly the stick try scaling your stick way back for a season and see what happens.
Eagle opens drawing book
From Worr: There will be no drawing in class!
From Free: hehe
From Eagle: snort
From Crazy: LOL
Eagle closes drawing book
From Worr: thank you hehe
From Luxor: smile
From Oldsetter: !

Also know this: You cannot consistently pull lead pursuit and expect to stay ahead of your opponent. You have to out fly your opponent and not simply match his ability in order to pull a lead shot off in a turn fight. So be patient. Don't be ashamed to slip into lag pursuit and thus preserve your energy for the real big target. This will not only keep you from stalling, but from missing that opportunity to seize upon his mistake with that e you have been holding in reserve.

Hold that thought, Oldsetter....I'll get to you

There is nothing like driving to the corner of your opponents break turn and watching him fill your screen with his wing tips. Then you pull hard on the stick and get your pipper out in front of his craft and just lay it in hard. Some times they think its only one ping because you can lay it in without interruption. But then they go "boom".

Maybe we should take a break here....Oldsetter you still have a comment?

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From Lephty: !
From Worr: go Leph
From Slo: !
From Oldsetter: What do you mean scale stick way back...so suggestions please?
From Crazy: May I add something to what you just said, Worr?
From Worr: play with 10,20,30 et
From Worr: up to 100
From Worr: for pitch
From Worr: I use 100s for roll all across the board
From Lephty: I worry, that if I am not pulling hard all the time, enema will outturn me on the next loop. I should be aiming behind his ac.
From Worr: cc crazy...two more
From B757: !
From Worr: Do you stall much Leph?
From Crazy: I would just add that when firing be relaxed. Some tend to yank the stick when pulling the trigger
From Lephty: Nope, I watch my speed and use flaps in 38 to keep from spinning. Mostly....
From Worr: Pull hard yes, but don't pull your hardest all the time......let him set the pace
From Lephty: So it is best to aim at or behind his ac?
From Worr: cc crazy most excellent point that is under the chapter VI tips
From Lephty: To line up that is, not to shoot.
From Worr: not aim...but wait - If you have the shot take it
From Eagle: until what dist?
From Worr: but do not expect to be able to pull that shot for one minute straight, you'll get one maybe every three loops. So be ready to jump on the opportunity.....when it presents itself and not before
From Slo: !
From Eagle: !
From Worr: lost track of who was next....B757 go, then Slo, Eagle
From B757: I've gotta thrustmaster with rudder pedals etc. Almost every time, I stall when I pull...
From Worr: That's not a gunnery issue...that's an energy issue. You can't force your ac to do more than its capable of doing. You have to fly within its limits and not the limits of your opponent's ac.
From B757: !
From Worr: Try and out turn a zero in a 39 and sure you'll stall lots! Follow up b757 sure, then Slo
From B757: Thanks..I was just wondering why I'm stalling at 200 Kts and above
From Worr: ?
From Crazy (whispered): Hey buddy. :)
From Worr: Welcome....Slo go
From Slo: Is there a trick to shooting under the nose of the aircraft? ie: How much lead to pull.
Crazy: Howdy, I'm recording this:
From Worr: Let me pick that up in "advanced issues" Slo
From Worr: Eagle
From Slo: cc
From Worr: go
From Eagle: You mentioned driving to the corner, then pulling for pursuit, then going for shot.
From Worr: Eagle?
From Worr: Yes...
From Eagle: How much aspect are you looking for, and at what dist do you go from pure/lag to lead for shot?
From Worr: all depends on his energy state and the angles presented. If he is fast and I'm slow you'll need more lead as he is, for example, in his zoom, and distance is not the factor for me as is angles, though I don't take the long shots when pulling hard Gs
From Eagle: angles presented... what aspect angle are you looking for, remembering that dead 6 is a bad place to shoot
From Crazy (whispered): cc
From Worr: long in my book is 4-8, I like 45, even 30, BIG AND FAT
From Gunsnake: 20 mins inactive timeout warning, sorry :-)
From Worr: cc Gunsnake
From Worr: you had question?
From Gunsnake: neg
From Worr: then onward ......

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The basic rule here is an obvious one, as eagle alluded to. There are some angles that percent a higher percentage shot than others. A dead six shot is difficult. Even a FTD with glass elevators is mighty thin wafer in the sky, but when he banks or pulls up the target grows huge, and vulnerable, parts of the ac are exposed. The 38 is one of the largest targets in the sky, but only at these angles.

So, what does this mean? It means if we take the above seriously we are going to line up our shots with a view to getting that high percentage shots.

The trouble is we often sight our target too soon. We just don't like having him drop below our nose out of view, and so we keep down pressure on the stick and before you know it.....we've blown our alt advantage and its a dead six shot. Often times your enema is gracious enough to pull up for you and present you with a high percentage shot, but we want to fly in such a fashion that we kill more than just dweebs but any and all things that we set our minds to.

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From Eagle: kill kill kill
From Worr:
From Eagle: sorry
From Luxor: !
From Worr: The B-17 is a classic example of this. A dead six shot on the flying really isn't that easy, not until you close in and by then you either going so fast that you get only get a snapshot or so slow that his tail gunner begins chewing up your engine. (BTW.....damage to your 12 as opposed to the 6 is often more worse). Instead, make your approach 12 o'clock high, or from the 2, 4, 8, 10 o'clock high positions. It means only snap shots, but you can't miss and his gunners can and will with only minor adjustments.
From Worr: Yes, luxor
From Luxor: u just answered my ? :)
From Lephty: !
From Worr: :)
From Worr: they are ready to fire
From Worr: eagle
From Worr: then b757, redd, fats
From Eagle: people keep asking what they can practice offline... slo, take AC up offline and see at what speed they become hard to control
From Worr: genothe tou ac
From Worr: know thy air craft!
From Lephty: Hehehe, just don't try it with the 38-F :)
From Slo: Good idea Eagle. Tanx. :)
From Eagle: thats the best answer I've seen to the Q "what to do about compression", find what it does to your AC and avoid the bad areas
From Worr: b757
From B757: (aaax) u mentioned high overtake from 6, u recommend gear, flaps,what to hold target?
From Worr: then redd, fats
From Worr: Well if its crowded you may want to hold on to that e and go for the snap shot only if your confidence is high then get down and dirty early and saddle up the shot. Make sure you start early however - if you start the run fast you are only going to get faster no matter what you do. A zero, for example.... you nose down, gear down, flaps down, no throttle, and you will still pick up speed so compute that into the equation before you play with the variables.
From Worr: redd then fats
From Redd-: question was more trim not gunnery - do you trim during (while in ) dive?
From Worr: I like the new trim tabs for elevators, yes, some times I hit them seven time to bring the nose down - like in the 51 at 580ias! bu cu fun - seven taps on i and counter taps on k as I slow and want my nose up again
From Worr: ftd is very forgivng on trim btw
From Redd-: ah cc on manual - meant auto trim ?
From Worr: I like to trim for my corner speed at the alt I'll be killing at
From Worr: so for a ftd 210ias 10k (FW danger zone)
From Worr: fats...you've been most patient
From Fats: on the dreaded "inverted climb -theory", I flew SpitfireIX one night, and watched how the 190s always out acceled and dove me.
From Worr: what is the inverted climb theory btw?
From Fats: but from 190s POV, when I am in it, it seems that the SpitIX always wins.
From Fats: dunno, I heard Pyro use the term in one reply to you. :)
From Slo: !
From Worr: We had our wires crossed when he did
From Free: !
From Worr: for in his dive equation he left out weight by mistake which he later added so the thread continued from that point in a different light
From Worr: thrust is a large part of dive rate...so the climbers by default have it to their advantage of course
From Worr: slo then free
From Slo: How long should your gun burst be max?
From Worr: Well slo......as long as I can stay there and watch the fireworks without getting in the way. I prefer to explode em than wound them only to see them limp onto my six when I change targets of opportune
From Worr: If it means energy loss such as in a boom drop then 2 secons full count into him and not 2 secs of firing
From Slo: cc Tanks. :)
From Free: "FTD"?? flower delivery?
From Worr: free
From Worr: LOL!
From Free: ;->
From Worr: Forked Tailed Devil
From Worr: 38
From Lephty: Hahaha.
From Free: thx
From Eagle: !
From Worr:
From Worr: eagle
From Lephty: And hence forth the 38 will be known as the flower wagon. :)
From Eagle: 2 sec of guns from a spit = empty guns...
From Slo: LOL
From Eagle: rofl leph!
From Worr: special delivery...flowers for your grave
From Eagle: 38 drivers = flower children
From Free: indeed
From Gunsnake: Flower Power
From Worr: (dominos man searches room)
From Eagle: *snort*
From Worr: Ok......

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Deflection shots take a knack. Most import is discernment. His speed will determine the amount of lead that you will need. Then the target aspect is just as important. A target crossing your "T" at a perpendicular trajectory requires more lead than one blowing past your right wing and slashing in front of your nose. If you are a good judge of both these things then you'll find deflection shots a simple matter of using your cross hairs. Often times the vertical aspect is easy. You wont shoot high or low, but rather left or right. So its the horizontal we need to sweat the most.

I find helpful the ends of the cross that surround the center point of your gun sight. I don't measure much outside the ends of that cross hair. Personally, I don't shoot too many blind shots under the nose. (The new nose art hasn't changed things for me a bit) The blind shots I do participate in are usually a bogie pulling hard straight up and into me in the vertical plane. I'll be turning inside of him, but he is zooming into my lead. I stop firing when I see the debris or the zoom has taken its toll on my energy state and or my angle of approach.

These are fun, btw

Rudders are essential for fine tuning a gun solution. You can kill two birds with one stone by using rudders. Instead of having to first roll your ac and then tug on the elevators to line up a shot you can often do it with one or two taps on the rudder. This saves valuable time. Rudders are indispensable for tightening your own turn and keeping your nose from sliding up in a high speed gun tracking solution. Your nose tends to drift up in these situations. Rudders are the wonder cure.

Also when following a wingover maneuver you can roll 90 degrees and rudder down into his wingover instead of following him with elevators. This allows you the shot and then also the ability to follow his move. But if you roll and apply elevator you will get the and then also loose the angle. Rudders allow you to have your cake and eat it too.

There are some good guns defensive moves your target may execute--flat/rolling scissors, cork screw, barrel rolls, etc--there are good counters to them as well.

But due to time, perhaps we can pick these up in another lecture, specifically in guns defense.

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From Worr: Gunsnake
From Gunsnake: A good way to tell if your opponent has rudders....
From Worr: watch nose and tail pivot
From Gunsnake: if you can't shake him in 2 scissors turns... he HAS rudders :)
From Gunsnake: out
From Worr: well........
From Free: !
From Worr: there is a simple counter to the scissors that doesn't involve rudders......
From Worr: Free go
From Slo: !
From Free: is there neg effect on E with rudder use?
From Worr: Yes, there is
From Worr: If your target is doing wingovers he is desperate
From Free: cc
From Worr: If I can get the kill I'll cash in the e any day
From Worr: Slo
From Slo: Has rudders? You mean rudder pedals right? Don't all planes have rudders.
From Pbio: !
From Worr: talking to Gunsnake? or me?
From Slo: You.
From Worr: I think bufy was tearing up the sky for some time and he never had pedals, so they can be overrated
From Lephty: !
From Worr: they just allow some more complex ACMs and some advanced gunnery issues that I'm still coming to
From Worr: pbio
From Eagle: i dont' have pedals (but I suck so it doesn't mean anything)
From Ram1: !
From Worr: then Leph
From Pbio: ok, I'll bite, what is the simple counter to scissors? :)
From Worr: vast understatement by the af cadet
From Gunsnake: chomp chomp
From Worr: Don't follow it
From Pbio: hehe
From Worr: chop throttle pull out flaps and let him fly to u
From Worr: just like a game of racket ball
From Eagle: !
From Worr: let him chase it
From Worr: you stand in the center and blow his brains out
From Pbio: cc!
From Worr: He is bleeding e like crazy for this move
From Fats: !
From Worr: no rolling scissors....hehe
From Worr: diff story
From Worr: that a cc! question or just enthusiasm pbio?
From Lephty: Hmmm, rudder will really only work if you can afford the e right? Best used when B&Z or you have more e.
From Eagle: !scissors
From Worr: a little rudder sometimes maintains e and doesn't take it away, Leph. Such as a controlled turn
From Pbio: enthusiasm, what about rolling scissors? counter?
From Worr: We are getting into guns defense now....another lecture I'm working up. Let me play with that when this lecture is over if you care to hang but....
From Worr: Now I've lost track here...sorry guys
From Worr: who was next?
From Eagle: Leph then me
From Worr: you are being most kind...
From Worr: ok Leph
From Ram1: !
From Eagle: i mean Leph, ram1, me
From Lephty: I went. That was the rudder thing. Ram 1 next.
From Ram1: thx
From Worr: ah Ram1, ok u next I forgot
From Worr: go Ram1
From Worr: then Eagle
From Ram1: My cannon question is now the time
From Worr: Yes....state it again please
From Ram1: OK, at 200 convergence where do you aim for dropoff of cannon?
From Worr: 200
From Ram1: say 400? pick a convergence
From Worr: But you know.....you are onto something here ram1. That's a most righteous question. I really don't know. When I flew the Zero I was at 150 most of the time or 200 and I could really see the cannons drop at 300 big time.
From Worr: ac I'm sure could say more on this than I
From Ram1: Does each plane with a cannon have different dropoff?
From Worr: Yes
From Ram1: Can you see this offline?
From Worr: iEntertainment Network models each type of cannon
From Worr: yes you can see it offline
From Ram1: I'll try it there, thx
From Worr: do some trials for us and let us know by posting it
From Lephty: ! comment on cannon drop
From Worr: cc leph
From Lephty: Go offline. Then belly your plane. IE: land with no gear down
From Worr: ok
From Lephty: Then see where your cannons/mgs hit the ground. Good test.
From Worr: ah gute idea
From Ram1: good idea
From Worr:
From Eagle: comments on scissors: remember the only purpose for scissors is to try and force an overshoot by shooter, so as shooter,
From Worr: last but not least.....
From Worr: its your choice
From Eagle: your goal is to not overshoot and wait for defender to hold still a sec and then keel him. I personally climb to prevent overshoot when following someone doing a scissors
From Worr: Fly where he is going, and you know he is going back and forth
From Eagle: because he is flying a longer distance than you, he will be making it very hard to stay behind him
From Worr: that's the safe ticket yes...
From Eagle: if you stay level behind him, you need to slow more than he does
From Worr: time pressures may dictate otherwise
From Eagle: if you climb, you conserve some E and can drop in on him if he makes one turn too long. Thats how they teach it in USAF... stick far aft to get slow, full power to climb at min speed. Can't pull too hard in WB, but slow climb is same idea
From Worr: Like I keep saying, "they (AF) are energy conscious people"
From Worr: Screwball (of Malta RAF fame) would never have made it through
From Eagle: sooner or later, the low guy will try to disengage, even in WB it's true

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From Worr: Ok.....

From Eagle: then he's dead, jets, props, missiles, guns, first guy to disengage dies

Here are some simple remedial things.....

Log off and don't exit your ac to find a world of fixed targets in the air. Its a good way to practice gun solutions and read the range markers at the same time. Remember to throttle down, and drop lots of flaps, of course.

Here is another:

Don't shoot too early. You will warn your prey and get him into guns defense before your perfect shot has arrived. Save for that one violent, and explosive shot that will do the deed quickly. Then call the janitor and have him clean up the mess.

Use short bursts to see if you are in the saddle and lined up. A steady burst may not only waste ammo but tip off your position and approach.

Notice I mention both position and approach. Another thing:

Someone already mentioned this earlier.

Squeeze the trigger, don't pull it. Pull jerks your stick. It's like playing the drums. Each part can act independently of the other but all in harmony. Try firing your guns from the key board only a few times and see if that changes things for you.

So far the lecture......

Ah, I see the custodian is here to start picking up tables

Lecture Ends...

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