Worr's Buff Busting Guide

Getting Started

Join iEN
Download Warbirds
Air Combat Arena

Support

Account Maintenance
WarBirds FAQ
Tech Support
Training Pages

Community
News
Bulletin Board
Check your Scores!
Daily/Nightly Events
Fan Sites
Squadrons
Hangars
Warbirds Enhancements
Webring
Historical Links

Webmaster
Duane "Krod" Godwin

Training Pages

[ Home | Training Arena | Learning Offline | Learning Online | Tips and Tricks ]

Buff-Busting
How to avoid Otto and get the Kill

A lecture given by Worr on the WarBirds BBS.

Lecture Starts...

I'll break after each for (!) questions and such.

Getting to know Otto

I did a little experiment that I know other buff drivers can validate as well. I flew 32 sorties in nothing but a B-17 this past month. I usually took my ship up to 20K so my engagements were on my terms. Most victims had to climb to me. I even did a few AB-17 flights. <g> In those 32 sorties I got 23 kills and 19 assists to achieve an econ ratio of 2.080. I got this and not because of Otto. I used the safety switch lots to keep my gunnery average up and to sucker the targets in for steady flight.

Nevertheless the gunnery average was 8%. This is below the average for all the Gold pilots on WB. That being said, it is fair to say that Otto isn't that good. Many complaints about Otto and ack-ack in general arose when 1.09 first came out and the ack strength was turned up to five. Only a few days later it was turned back to where it was before, namely four. Yet folks continued to complain as if there was a significant change. The only change was more guns at bases.

HOWEVER...there are some things that Otto does extremely well, much better than you ever can. This is important to note. Otto can track like a hound dog named Pinocchio when all the prevailing winds are blowing his direction. Regardless of your speed, regardless of your range, even out to range 11, Otto can track you dead, if you let him. You can match his tracking abilities to some extent, but only in closer and only at speeds you can judge within your gun sight, for you can only lead so much within your view. I generally feel comfortable with a convergence of 300 to 400 stalking buffs, and I saddle up my shot at range 6. Nevertheless, Otto can saddle you up much further out, and by the first ping it may be too late because of net lag you may have been dead long ago.

AND GET THIS...Otto can track you outside of gunnery range, and with the safety off. His little electronic brain is working overtime. <g> Hence you get these surprising one ping kills at extreme range. No warning. You just entered his gunnery range and POW! But you flew STRAIGHT into it. What does this mean?

Let me draw four conclusions:

You have to shake, rattle and roll on your entrance. Keep slipping and sliding adding some g's until you are ready to begin shooting. Don't fly straight waiting to open up.
Once you fire and start getting some strikes, don't overstay your welcome. Count one one thousand, two...and get out. Preferably bug out and come for a new run. Or rudder over to the other side of the wing and start hitting there. Otherwise you will be dead.
You need more than a slip or a slide to defeat Otto. You need pitch, you need g's, and in short you need to bleed energy, which assumes you have it to begin with at the outset.
The easiest shots for you are the easiest shots for Otto. Thus the dead six shot is easy for you...and easy for Otto! The slice shot with rapid closure from 3 o' clock is hard for you, but hard for Otto :)

From Worr: QUESTIONS? Type an !, and I will take 'em one at a time.
From Ender: !
From Zim-: !
From Worr: Ender then Zim
From Ender: ok, you said 300-440 convergence...
From Worr: 400 cc
From Ender: and 2-second burst, is this in FW/109G, other big cannons?
From Worr: 2 seconds because of Otto not because of your ac
From Ender: I usually fly F6f with 50s, am out too outclassed?
From Don Fisher: !
From Worr: No! .50s are excellent for buff busting because they do not scatter like the FW, and because most don't understand the FW's guns. You may even do better in 51 or f6f. Follow up Ender?
From Ender: usually have conv to 200 how this affect my style?
From Worr: or I'll go to Zim then Donf
From Worr: 200 is what I like generally, but against a buff it will hurt you because you have to close to kill.
From Ender: i.e., wait to open up at 4, or am I screwed?
From Worr: cc 4, don't saddle up until then, and THAT is close for a buff.
From Ender: thanks, done
From Worr: Zim
From Piper: !
From Zim-: Do continuous barrel rolls work while closing?
From Worr: Yes, but at extreme ranges say 10+, you may not need such moves…teeter-totter is fine.
From Zim-: Sort of "roll around the buff" until about d7, then nose on and shoot at d6? Or, just pump the stick?
From Worr: With just a tish pull on the stick, roll around the buff cc
From Worr: Donf then Piper
From Don Fisher: Ok thx Worr cc bout 50s and FW’s but about the zero
From Worr: Hehe
From Zim-: Roflmao!
From Worr: Stay at home, zero-san
From Don Fisher: We had a mini scen that I was CO of , and we had too... but I think they were lighting up with mg and no shells... just drifting below
From Worr: CC, FW will do this too. I don't even use MG for buff busting. I've seen my MG go over his nose, and my cannon go behind his tail when pulling g’s!!! Nice buff bookends, but no hits.
From Don Fisher: cc big time on FW
From Worr: Piper
From Piper: When you say "saddle," I take it you mean set up a tracking shot and not dead 6?
From Worr: well....you can choose that saddle. I mean establishing a target lock no matter what your aoa...err target aspect angle. Any one else?
From Piper: cc... done.
From Don Fisher: !
From Ender: !
From Worr: Donf then Ender
From Don Fisher: U saddle from what angle? I like planform shots from real high...
From Worr: I like 12 high....like almost 90-degree angle, or a 4/7 o' clock high. I don't get the 3/9 often but I'll take it as my favorite.
From Don Fisher: cc same here love that 40% gunnery ;)
From Worr: SAFEST approach IMHO, too.
From Worr: cc .40
From Zim-: !
From Worr: Ender go
From Worr: 8% Otto isn't that good
From Ender: Ok, as far as getting these 12 o’clock hi, 4/7, etc shots...is it just a matter of practice and training your reflexes, or am I doing it totally wrong? I always seem to end up on the buffs 6, maybe I have lead turning too ingrained…
From Worr: You know what the trouble is, Ender, and most everyone does it...You line up the target way too soon, which means you keep it in your forward view. People just don't like to approach something blind. But what does that do? It puts you dead six every time. Fly parallel and then track it in your view once you in guns on but NOT before.
From Ender: cc
From Worr: Trust that you do know where it is going ;)
From Worr: Zim
From Zim-: Maybe you're getting to this point, but...favorite aimpoint on bombers to shoot at? Cockpit/wing/tail???
From Worr: BRAINS <g>
From Zim-: hehe
From Don Fisher: hehe
From Worr: Splatter em
From Zim-: Softest part of the plane, CC ;)
From Worr: And fly through the debris for fun
From Don Fisher: Hell, ain’t that what the 109G cannon is for?
From Worr: I will often times walk with the rudders over the wing roots
From Worr: Ok let's go on here
From Worr: <takes handful of popcorn>
From Zim-: *burp*
From Worr: ack sticky KB

Buff Dynamics

All the guns have overlapping fields of fire, particularly rearward. Waist gunners are only single .50s, not doubles, and theB25 has no bottom gunner and no nose Otto. Bombers are big, but not from a dead six position. Generally your gunnery should go up when you do a lot of buff busting. You can aim sooner on approach. Gunners die easy, but net lag may delay the fruits of your labor. Buffs don't go down even with damage. I can't tell you how many no elevator buffs I landed with no trouble. Pilot kills are instantaneous kills. <g > Heavy g’s and wild maneuvering shuts Otto down. 17’s slow down to 150ias or so to bomb.

From Zim-: !
From Worr: go
From Zim-: You said B-25 has no nose Otto... but attack one from the front, and the pilot just has to maneuver a bit and put 8 .50s in your face!
From Worr: You can sucker him actually well, but attack from his forward right ;) err... left excuse me
From Zim-: I got a bunch of head-on kills flying b25... people forgot the nose armament :)
From Worr: It’s hard to bring that nose around when he is fast--25 locks up. Now...

Some simple conclusions then:

Attack from above and aim for the pilot. This presents the biggest target and the greater potential for a kill. Tail damage just doesn't bring a buff down.
Egress with speed and use lateral plus vertical movement. Egress preferably downward, not upward to increase separation and decrease time in Otto's range.
Attack and come around again...he isn't going anywhere. Let the damage tally for you.
NEVER EVER, no don't do it...climb to attack.

From Don Fisher: hehe my paper starts with those words
From Worr: :)
From Worr: comments or questions?
From Don Fisher: !
From Zim-: !
From Worr: Donf then Zim, Kobra etc
From Don Fisher: U break low then, if I got the speed, I usually extend then Immelman for a planform...
From Piper: !
From Worr: I've found some buff drivers doing a scissors on me in my Immelman and I get popped. Immelman is for the impatient.
From Don Fisher: ahhh... the lone buff.....
From Worr: cc loner
From Don Fisher: thx Worr
From Worr: Zim
From Zim-: Egress jinks... same as ingress? pitch and yaw?
From Worr: cc pitch and yaw...but not a simple slide here and there such as when at range 10…wow did I learn the hard way, you really have to bleed the energy on the egress and work hard.
From Zim-: Run away in straight line?
From Worr: Lost too many engines that way…don't relax on the egress. Out of sight out of mind...loose brain. He may not be in your forward view but he wants you dead just the same <g>
From Zim-: cc, so violent maneuvers on egress, preferably down?
From Worr: cc with barrel rolls, make sure you are pulling g’s and then pulling them on a different lift vector every 2 seconds. Do this....fly over a runway at 3K, and do some loops. Watch how the ack follows you. Like flinging a Frisbee at you, he is constantly leading you speed means nothing but less time in his sights.
From Zim-: G's, barrel rolls. cc
From Don Fisher: !
From Worr: Donf then Ender
From Don Fisher: In my paper, I rated the buff busting planes as FW,F4u,51,etc. How about you? What do you think?
From Piper: !
From Worr: Agreed. Ender then Piper.
From Ender: Slightly off subject, but you have any comments about avoiding ack at fields (as it is different than buff)?
From Worr: Ack is same as Otto, just different fields of fire and number of guns. Otherwise it’s the same thing
From Ender: Except you can’t dive below <g>
From Worr: Hehe. Well you have that point…say you reminded me of something Ender. Ever bomb an ack site, and get it good, but even as you fly past the ack it still is pinging you?
From Ender: Yes, net lag?
From Worr: Keep this in mind, even when you knock out tail gun Otto, net lag can still get you good. That's why I break off my attacks to let the damage tally up, then go at it again.
From Worr: ok Piper
From Piper: What's the reasoning for not climbing to attack? I’ve never tried, but I know FW's used to practice it during WWII.
From Worr: Climb to IP but not to attack. If you climb to attack you have little energy, little energy means little options.
From Sylvan: !
From Worr: No wild Egress, you die…
From Piper: cc
From Worr: Real FW’s didn't face Otto :) Energy = options = life. Real FW’s didn't climb to attack. They only climbed to set up an attack, or out of desperation.
From Zim-: me163 did ;)
From Worr: hehe cc on the 163
From Piper: cc... think it may have been 109 now that I think about it
From Zim-: Climb, cannon, glide, KABLOOI!
From Worr: But even they, I believed climbed above the box and dived down
From Don Fisher: LOL Zim
From Sylvan: IP = ingress point?
From Zim-: cc
From Worr: cc

Let me wrap this in a simple way now...keep these four things in mind:

SPEED - GREED - LEAD - BLEED

Speed...you need lots of it for your options, so get some alt before you make your guns pass.

Greed... well it kills you dead. Two seconds and you are history even when you think Otto isn't on.

Lead... always know that Otto is aiming ahead of you, and the lead is shorter at closer ranges. You may jink so much you fly into your former lead spot <g>

Bleed... for your exit get on the black out screen, and change your lift vector often.

Speed, greed, lead, bleed...will help, I think...

From Ender: !
From Worr: Go ahead Ender
From Ender: Ok, I real fast, rolling like crazy, and I can’t saddle up till 300yrds with my 200 conv 50s, should I break off before 2 sec if I get too close? And what is too close?
From Worr: I break off at range 3.
From Don Fisher: !
From Worr: You can close if into 2 but you'll need lots of energy to egress....and you'll need more than one lift vector to get you off target.
From Ender: Range 3 huh? So I only have between 400 and 300yrds with my 200yrd conv?
From Worr: Don't just hit a split ess in other words, you can use one bank of guns Ender outside 400 yards.
From Ender: cc, which?
From Worr: Either bank...your conv still sets one set of wing guns on a straight path, use em even out to 800 yards
From Ender: huh?
From Worr: Convergence makes a big X; center of the x is your conv range, say 200. 400 is top of the x. 0 is bottom of the x, so aim right or left of your target pipper when you at range 600.
From Ender: (with u, how that affect diff banks tho?)
From Worr: You just wont get all 6 50s on, only 3:)
From Ender: Gotcha
From Worr: WELL...
From Ender: thanks
From Worr: I hope this has been helpful to you all.
From Ender: Yes, very much, thanks Worr!
From Kevinb: <applause>
From Don Fisher: clap!
From Worr: :)
From Ender: <cheering>
From Zim-: CC, thanks Worr! Good stuff
From Piper: Thanks Worr
From Worr: thanx kjb1 for the tape.

Lecture Ends...

[ Top of Page ]

[ Home | Training Arena | Learning Offline | Learning Online | Tips and Tricks ]

Mail the KrodMaster